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Hardball With Chris Matthews

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Libya 10, Wisconsin 7, America 7, Obama 6, United States 6, Egypt 6, Ronald Reagan 4, John Thune 4, Campbell 4, Glenn Beck 4, Us 4, Msnbc 3, United 3, Doma 3, Howard Fineman 3, Michelle Obama 3, Washington 3, Barbara Bush 2, Ohio 2, Jonathan Allen 2,
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  MSNBC    Hardball With Chris Matthews    News/Business.   
   (2011) New. (CC)  

    February 23, 2011
    5:00 - 5:59pm EST  

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great examples of public works done right in this country, creating jobs and solving problems. isn't it time we start thinking big once again, especially when you understand how much detail there is, and of course we in that you to check out our website. it's all part of our campaign to build a real jobs movement in this country. thank you so much for joining us this afternoon on "the dylan ratigan show." that does it for us. america supports labor. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm crist matthews down in washington. leading off tonight, man alone. win or lose, that state's
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governor is beginning to look line general custer. nobody's coming to the rescue. the governors may have hoped for reinforcements from fellow republican conservative governors in other states, but they're not coming. it looks like they're not coming at all. governor walker has to win the fight in madison. here's one of the reasons for isolation. a new poll shows that most americans oppose strips negotiation rights. are we getting the verdict? has the showdown backfired? has it given a big boost to the labor movement? that's our top story tonight. another huge story today, president obama as of today will not defend -- will not defend the constitutionality of the defense of marriage act, doma, his attorney general will not go into the act to enforce the two big provisions, the one keeping provisions of one state affecting another state and the policy, that only a marriage between a man and woman will be
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recognized until federal law. that's a huge victory for gay rights activists and a big debate tonight on "hardball." the republicans act like they're ready for a fight. so do democrats. history shows when that's the case, you get a fight. watch this battle of chicken when neither truck wants to swerve. government shutdown on the way. both sides think this is a fight they can win, and who is right? yawn thune says he's sitting out 2012, back president obama will be too touch to beat. we're going to check in with the "hardball" strategists on that point. watch what happened when someone scut newt gingrich how he squares his personal marital history with his professed values. time timely this could be a very important announcement coming at any minute we believe. we'll bring you the statement
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live when it comes. and we'll talk to chuck todd at the white house about what it may mean for the future. let's start in wisconsin. marty beals, executive director of the wisconsin chapter of afscme. is this the battle of the alamo for labor in this country? is this the big one? this is a defines moment. grounds for labor. we're going to make sure we win here in wisconsin. >> what do you make of the fact that other guys are jumping on this. here's chris christie who seems to have the hot and among conservatives, jumping on this issue, then i want your reaction, sir. >> i haven't gotten knit cooperation from the unions in new jersey on any level. i asked the teachers last year, you all remember this, we had to cut $820 million from k-12 education. i want to the teachers ease union last year, just freeze
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your salary for one year, 1.5 of your salary to pain your health benefits and i won't have to lay off one teacher, and you know what they told me? go to hell. >> there you have the fighting words. it seems like this fight is spreading across the country. your reaction, sir? >> this is a much bigger issue. workers and citizens voices away. last vest ink ige of the middle class. that's what's happening here. that's what's happening in new jersey, in indiana, that's what's happening in ohio, in florida, and in other states. this is a much bigger agenda than what happens here in madison, wisconsin. >> i grew up with the labor movement, and you had guys like george meanie. your guys had power, nobody
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messed with you. and i look now, you have 7% of the private sector. that's all you've got, 1 out of 13 or something, and the entire private sector, 7 percent organized. even among public employees which you've done a pretty good job, you only have 36%. why such a puny percentage of organization if it's still a movement. is it a labor movement? is it moving? or is it just holding on for life right now? >> well, i believe it is, and i think you see right here in the people's house here in wisconsin, but also you see it in ohio, in indiana, in washington, all across this country. i think we have a rebirth of the labor movement here. you'll see labor get stronger and stronger. i can't speak for the past, but can speak for the future. i know labor will be here one day longer than the right wing. i'm going to give you free advertising. take a minute and speak to the unorganized private sector
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employees out there making 30, 40 a year, average income, maybe two people are working, making more, why should they organize? why should they join the labor movement if it is still a movement? >> because labor movements are all about dignity in the workplace, and these folks who don't have unions have no dignity in the workplace. they work at the beck and fancy of their employer, and maybe they have a decent salary, maybe not. fringes probably not, but the union brings dignity to the workplace. that's what's very important. and nonunion people. here's president obama speaking on libya. >> over the last few days, my national security team has been working around the clock to monitor the situation there and to coordinate with our international partners about a way forward. first, we are doing everything we can to protect american citizens. that is my highest priority. in libya, we've urged our people
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to leave the country and the state department is assisting those in need of support. meanwhile, i think all americans should give thanks to the heroic work being down by our foreign service officers and the men and women serving in our embassies and consulates around the world. they represent the very best of our country and its values. now, throughout this period of unrest and upheaval across the region, the united states has maintained a set of core principles, which guide our approach. these principles apply to the situation in libya. as i said last week, we strongly condemn the use of violence in libya. the american people extend our deepest condolences to the families and loved ones of all who have been killed and injured, the suffering and bloodshed is outrage out and unacceptable. so are threats and orders to
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shoot peaceful protesters and further punish the people of libya. these access violate international norms and every standard of common decency. this violence must stop. the united states also strongly supports the universal rights of the libyan people. include the rights of peaceful assembly, free speech and the ability of the libyan people to determine their own destiny. these are human rights. they are not negotiable. they must be respected in every country, and they cannot be denied through violence or suppression. in a volatile situation like this one, it is imperative that the nations and peoples of the world speak with one voice, and that that has been our focus. yesterday a unanimous u.n. security council sent a clear message that it condemns the violence in libya, supports accountability for the perpetrators, and stands with
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the libyan people. this same message, by the way, has been delivered by the european union, the arab league, the african union, the organization of the islamic conference, and many individual nations. north and south, east and west, voices are being raised together to oppose suppression and support the rights of the libyan people. i've also asked my amrgs to prepare the full range of options that we have to respond to this crisis. this includes those actions we may take and those we will coordinate with our allies and partners, or those that we'll carry out through multilateral institutions. like all governments, the libyan government has a responsibility to refrain from violence action to allow humanitarian assistance to reach those in need and respect the rights of its people. it must be held accountable for its failure to meet those
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responsibilities, and face the cost of continued violations of human rights. this is not simply a concern of the united states. the entire world is watching, and we will coordinate or assistance and accountability measures with the international community. to that end, secretary clinton and i have asked bill burns, our undersecretary of state for political affairs, to make several stops in europe and the region to intensify our consultation with allies and partners about the situation in libya. i've also asked secretary clinton to travel to geneva on monday where a number of ministers will convene. they'll continue to ensure that we join with the international community to speak with one voice to the government and the people of libya. and even as we are focused on the urgent situation in libya, let me just say that our efforts continue to address the events
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taking place elsewhere, including how the international community can most effectively support the peaceful transition to democracy in both tunisia and in egypt. so let me be clear. the change that is taking place across the region is being driven by the people of the region. this change doesn't represent the work of the united states or any foreign power. it represents the aspirations of people who are seeking a better life. as one libyan said, we just want to be able to live like human beings. we just want to be able to live like human beings, the most basic aspiration that's driving this change. throughout this time of transition, the united states will continue to stand up for freedom, stand up for justice, and stand up for the dignity of all people. thank you very much.
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>> howard fineman joins me right now. howard, this is not much of a statement. i guess it's to get the headlines out there in terms of the people in the region. he strongly condemns any action, of course it's been outrageous, he calls it outrageous. they have been using mercenaries from sub-sahara africa to gun down men. >> i think it was. he talked about intensifying consultations and preparing a full range of options, a lot of diplomatic and pentagon-ese that doesn't say anything to the people in the region or the united states, who have become fixated. >> bill crystal made a statement -- we usually don't side with him, but he did make a statement that the president ought to be more aggressive.
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it was a typical mcchrystal response, but shouldn't he look like he's doing something? >> there's talk about having a multilateral no-fly zone. i have a friend whose husband is with the protest in benghazi. they were asking, where is the united states? they wanted to hear more. they don't expect the u.s. or obama to do anything for them, but they want to hear more. >> let's try to do the analysis i think we do here rather well. is the president concerned if he shows any kind of muscle here, any kind of interference that it will somehow undermine the legitimacy of this new revelation? >> well, possibly, but i think he may be seduced by the success of his relative silence in egypt. that thing was pushed along by the military, by a lot of
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organized forces within the country, including their military in close consultation with ours. this is a very different situation. gadhafi is playing his hand in public in a very violent and crazy way, both in his own personal statements and the violence he's unleashed, so the proportional response from the president i think needs to be more forceful in his language, and as david said, the no-fly zone, we've got to get more serious. this is not egypt. barack obama's natural inclination is caution. that's often very good in a diplomat, but this is a different situation from egypt. as somebody -- like everybody else, who is watching him perform as a global leader, this seems a little -- >> this statement could have been put out by the first president bush. it has the aspect of an arabist -- i shouldn't be too strong, but it doesn't have in -- ronald reagan, to his effort called it evil empire.
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>> he called gadhafi a mad dog, which might not have helped in those dame, but no doubt the white house is scrambling to put together a response -- >> why did he do this tonight? >> i think there's been a lot of demand, but if this is all he's saying, i'm not sure it serves him well. you could have guessed at all this. >> the other thing is we don't have control of the situation here any more than we did in egypt. the difference is in egypt. other responsible people had control. here there isn't any. >> live like human beings is a personal statement about the situation there. howard and david, thank you. coming up. gay marriage advocates are thrilled that the obama administration says it will no longer defend d.o.m.a. this is a big development, a big change in policy by this administration, now coming out almost support of same-sex marriage.
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former white house chief of staff rahm emanuel is, it looks likes, the next mayor of chicago. he cruised to victory yesterday. in a field of six candidates, avoided a runoff. carolyn moseley braun got about 9%. rahm won the predominantly white wards in his former district and racked up strong margins in predominantly african-american neighborhoods as well. a real across the board victory for him. what a victory for this guy. we'll be right back. how are you getting to a happier place? running there? dancing there? how about eating soup to get there? campbell's soups fill you with good nutrition, farm-grown ingredients,
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xwak to "hardball." a huge reversal of president obama. the obama administration says it will no longer defend the constitutionality of the defense of marriage act, which prevents, rather, the decision of one state on same-sex marriage to affect another state, and also
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says that only a marriage between a man and a woman will be recognized until federal law. what will this decision mean for the fight to heelize same-sex marriage? and how will it play politically in 2012? two great questions and two great guests. welcome. richard, it seems to me that the president of the united states has a constitutional responsibility to defend laws that have been signed by presidents. why do you think this president is not doing what you would normally consider his duty, which is defend the law. >> he has a duty to enforce the law, which he will continue to do, but fundamentally he said i don't believe this law is constitutional, band because i believe that, i'm not going to continue to defend it. he was increasingly uncomfortable doing this. >> i'm going to be an advocate of what i think is fact, not a point of view, and that is that states get to set marriage laws. every state's been a little
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different. why can't a state set one and -- that's what doma says. >> and they can, even after the president's action today, in theory they can do this. the action today relates to benefits and a challenge to that section of the law, which says the federal government doesn't have to pay benefits. that's the part of the law he's not defending. >> not the good faith and credit kind of thing? >> i think it will lead -- >> as you know, one says if you're a virginia, you don't have to deal with connecticut and iowa, and the other says the federal government for its purposes will not recognize -- your view on the president's decision today? >> i think the president's position has changed, and we have to ask why he did. has he been sitting down studying the constitution? of course not. this is a political decision. there's no doubt he's under great pressure from his political base, part of which is the gay rights, and i think he
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simply capitulated. we have a weak president, quite frankly. he did not face fiscal financial disast disaster. you say his statement on libya. the man is not a strong leader. i think what he and holder -- >> who have been strong presidential leaders in your lifetime? >> frankly richard nixon was strong, harry truman was strong, i think ronald reagan. i think in some ways, though i disagreed with his, bush 2 was. >> i think this show is incredibly strong leadership. >> you know, i think the country is changing its mind. is he changing his mind? >> i think he says he's in the middle of an evolution, but i think what you see is they saw the success of the repeal of don't ask/don't tell. it was the most popular -- >> you're sitting next to someone who doesn't believe in evolution. >> popular, use the word popular. >> may be, but here he was in december of last year talking
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about his feelings on this issue, where he opposed it, remember. let's listen. >> my feelings about this are constantly evolving. i struggle with this. i have friends -- i have people who work for me, who are in powerful, strong, long-lasting gay or lesbian unions. and they are extraordinary people. and this is something that means a lot to them, and they care deeply about. at this point, what i've said is that my baseline is a strong civil union that provides them the protections and the legal rights that married couples have, and i think that's the right thing to do. but i recognize from their perspective it is not enough, and i think this is something
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we'll continue to dough bait and will continue to wrestle with it. >> he's wrestling with it enough that he 'decided not to defend the constitutionality of it. a pew poll, 48% of the country oppose gay marriage, 42% support it. when you break it down to independenting, 44% were in favor, 43% not. so the independent voters is slightly -- in fact let's just call it 50/50 on the line. no surprise there f it's not clearly a big benefit, so why? >> i said before it's his base. he's a man almost 50 years old, a constitutional lawyer presumably. moral truth doesn't change because of polls, and the constitution doesn't change because of polls. how are you grappling and evolving with an issue when we know the law -- >> pat, pat.
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>> the constitution will interpret it. >> you can change the interpretation, but you cannot change the constitution. >> i was going to say he really has been clear from the start. he said this law, even when he was running for president, he said this law was unfair and wrong and should be repealed. what he's doing now is bringing the government, the justice department in line -- >> let's talk about the world we live in. brown came along, right -- >> brown was based on sociology. >> right. >> well, this may well be based on sociology pat. >> pat, the world is changing. >> richard, if you don't like doma, i can understand it. put something up to the congress of the united states and change it. don't send it to the department of justice. >> you know what, that is a good defensible scalia-type situation. once he said, i like laws. congress should take these issues on. >> this president -- >> but this congress isn't going to do it.
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>> this president said my first choice would be to get congress to repeal it. >> will this help? >> i don't think it will help with our crowd. >> the mood of the country is changing. discrimination against gay people is no longer popular. some of the other polls are even less 50/50. >> ten seconds. >> moral truth exists and it doesn't change, and all things are not equal. >> but people's views -- even you're evolving. >> you're not going to change his mind. thank you richard and pat. very good debate here, very civilized. newt gingrich said today he heard from a college kid asked him about his own marital history. sometimes reporters aren't as nervy as they college kids. he just said -- we're going to watch this. it's in "the sideshow." you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] this...is the network.
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first up, an affair to forget. pennsylvania student on how he squares his known and admitted extra-marital affair with the clinton impeachment with his own family values conservatism. let's watch the reaction. >> is, as a successful politician who is considering running for president, how do you set the bar for moral conduct, and as a trusted voice of the american people, how do you reconcile this hypothetical critical interpretation of the religious values that you so vigorously defend? >> okay. now, i hope you feel better about yourself. i will be totally candid.
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i've had a life which, on occasion, has had problems. i believe in a forgiving god, the american people will have to decide whether that's their primary concerns. >> that's what happens when young people -- in this case, that kid was a college democrat. next scott walker gets pranked. so consider this, yesterday a man posing as billionaire financier david koch got straight through to walker's office and secretly taped this. he compares himself to ronald reagan. >> 30 years ago, ronald reagan, who's 100th birthday we just set brayed the day before, had one of the his most defining moments in his political career when he fired the air traffic controllers. that was the first crack in the berlin wall in the fall of communism. from that point forward, the soviets and communists knew that ronald reagan wasn't a pushover.
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and i said, this may not have as broad world implications, but in wisconsin's history, i said, this is our moment, this is our time to change the course of history. >> one fat big difference here. ronald reagan fired the air traffic controllers who endorsed him in the previous campaign after they wildcatted in violation of a union-approved contract. big difference between that and what walker is doing to the free labor of wisconsin. time for tonight's big number. the lacest republican talking point. catch this -- president obama is apologizing for -- >> i do not believe the majority of americans share the same views that barack obama does when he's out there apologizing for america's exceptionalism. >> i will not and will never apologize for america. i don't apologize for america, because i believe in america. >> i think he has made a practice of trying to apologize for america. i personally am proud of
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america. >> mr. president, stop apologizing for our country. >> wow, i think they pass these things around. "the washington post" fact check claim, they're rating 4 out of 4 possibly pinocchios. republicans claim that the claim is an apologyist earns 4. tonight's big number. up next, republicans think the public is behind them if and when the budget standoff leads to a government shutdown. we'll see, or will president obama be the big winner? if you missed the documentary by bill clinton, just go to msnbc.com, look up the "hardball" icon and punch it. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. hey what's going on? doing the shipping. man, it would be a lot easier if we didn't have to weigh 'em all. if those boxes are under 70 lbs. you don't have to weigh 'em. with these priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service, if it fits, it ships
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hi there, everyone. a second day of declines as oil tops $100 a barrel. the dow tumbling 107 points, the s&p off five, the s&p 500 slipping eight. 500 would be quite a big deal. nasdaq off 33. the closing level there, lots and lots of concerns about oil today, but the energy companies, take a-looking at this. they were in the spot light, as oil continues to climb over concerns unrest in the middle east. more profits in the oil companies, investors bitting higher today. after lowering outlook and weak demand. apple up slightly after shareholders rejected demands that it shares its succession plans for ceo steve jobs. and lowe's also home depot slipping today despite better
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than expected quarterly profits and strong results on tuesday, including news that the company was boosting its different and full-year outlook. finally home builders, they struggled today despite a jump, and home deals on word that home prices fell to their lowest level in nearly nine years in january. the pain is still there for the real estate market. that's cnbc, i'm trish regan, now back to "hardball." well, maybe i'm wrong, but i'm usually right about these things. i think there's a fight coming which would lead us to a shutdown of the federal government for a period of time. welcome back to "hardball." if at the doesn't pass some bill, the government will shut down, lights out, doors shut. will it really happen?
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who will be the winners and loser? howard fineman is with the huffington post and jonathan allen covers congress. what's the latest on the fight? will there be one? >> the latest on the fight is that the republicans are now trying to look like they're the reasonable ones here, putting out word they'll they're willing to do a short extension from march 4th for a couple weeks, only take a little bite out of the budget, try to force the president to accept that as a appetizer for the big meal to come. >> so this little cut, they can get to say no to? >> that's what they think. >> to say you guys are opposed to government cuts in principle? >> you have a binary -- where
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they want to extend, john boehner says he won't vote for a bill unless it does cut some money. as howard said, $2 billion a week for the next two weeks. somebody's going to give here. this isn't a matter of negotiation with these mutually exclusive goals. someone will lose this fight or we'll have a government shutdown. a lot of people think american people lose. >> we argue this all the time with the producers, and the principle of government spending cuts always wins. the reality, nose so sure. howard, if the sure is principles should there be any cuts? if it's my associate security check or medicare bill or whatever, no. but right now it's sort of the principle. haven't the republicans found the high ground with a puny 4% cut? >> the move they have made on the chessboard, yes. they say -- i haven't looked at the details -- >> general government. >> yeah, they're going to find
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some way to make it sound inconsequential. it's not going to affect anybody. >> how about npr? >> it won't affect anybody. it will come out tell prompter budget or whatever. they'll try to make it seem so inconsequential. >> will they go for the debate or will they say we did our cuts last time. >> will they break and run, john? all you need on the senate side is about four to pop saying i'm not taking that hit. ben nelson, i'm running for reelection in nebraska, i'm not going to be the guy that held out against any cuts in the federal government. >> a huge portion of the senate democrats are up for reelection. republicans are hoping to throw the hot potato to harry reid while he hands his hands tied by thinks democrats who will want to vote for spending cuts. no question about it. that's one of the reasons this is different from 1995. the public opinion on spending cuts on deficits is different
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right now than it was back then. >> you're with gene robinson on that. he's a liberal columnist. he says he thinks he's not sure that this is a -- that this is a dunk for the democrats, that the shutdown of the government, if it's about spending cuts, the republicans may be able to crat a fight to their advantage. it looks like they're doing it, at least in a fine way today. what do you think? can they win this fight if they fight it on principle, not on hurting people? >> i think that's absolutely right. if democrats can't find $1 they're willing to cut from the government that's not going to play well with the public. everybody thinks there's something that can be cut. some people think it's the bombers, other people think it's public broadcasting. >> howard agrees with you, i think. >> i do. >> he shook his head. he's with you. howard fineman, thank you, jonathan allen as well, thank
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you. did you catch what john thune said about president obama when he announced he wasn't going to run? it's one of the rare times when he says, i can't beat you. it's about politics. how strong is the president right now? our strategists will talk about how fit the president is to be reelected right now. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc.
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well, you can score another victory for president obama's health care. a federal judge upheld the constitutionality of the law. judge kessler for the district of columbia became the third federal judge to validate the obama-care bill. the individual mandate, which is a tricky part, so if you're keeping score, it's now 3-2 with the three judges who upheld the law, all democratic employees. i guess judges have opinions. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] succeeding in today's market requires decisive action.
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welcome back to "hardball." john thune gave an unusually honest answer on why he chose to sit out the 2012 presidential race. he came to the conclusion, he said, that president obama would be tough to beat, calling the president a shrewd politician. he said, quote, as i observed his response and reaction to the midterm election, that was all part of my assessment of the landscape. any incumbent is a tough race, and he's no exception. i think he has plenty of vulnerabilities, but i also observed how adept politically he was. do they have a uphill climb?
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gentlemen, i have never heard -- >> he was very honest, very honest. he's right. incumbents are always difficult, an incumbent with a billion, and that's what the obama campaign has said they'll raise, and rising poll numbers, is going to be especially difficult. >> excuse me to keep this rolling, but thune i thought was inoffense sieve, likable, lanky, western like gary cooper type, without being too religious in a bad way, but acceptable to the far right -- you know what i mean, like you. >> he would have been a formidable candidate, unlike me, but this is hardly a red-letter day. first of all, i could have told you six months ago that i didn't think john thune was going to run for president. >> but you didn't -- >> but the list is growing. >> wait, hold on, hold on. >> jeb's not running. >> jeb was never planning on running, christie said he hasn't been in office long enough. john thune wasn't preparing a
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presidential campaign back when the president's numbers were in the tank, so no one should be surprised now that he's following through on that. >> he was one of the people that republicans talked talked about. he gave a peep last week that wasn't inspirational, i heard, and hi voted for the bailout, which i think makes it a difficult run for him, and he's from a state where it's hard to raise money. so there are a lot of things lined up against him, and i think he made a smart decision for a political career of a young man. >> this has far more to do with his belief the republicans will take over the senate in two years than his belief that somehow obama can't be beat. >> but you are being left with the crazies still in contention and the real people are getting out. jeb, crustie are real people. huckabee is still running. if he runs, he's a lunatic. he says he's going to clear out all the arabs in the west bank.
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i've never heard a politician say not only interfere in a country, talk about ethnic cleansing? he says he's going to do it. >> i'm not sure he's going to run. >> this is a question of whether anybody on the right or left should be attacking the other person's spouse. here's rush limbaugh on monday. here he is michelle obama. here he is on monday, as i said. the problem is, and dare i say this, it doesn't look like michelm michelle obama follows her on nutritionaire and dietary advice. then we hear she's having ribs with 41 grams of fat. i'm just saying our first lady does not project the image of women that you might see on the cover of the "sports illustrated" swimsuit issue. >> he doesn't look like he lives in a cage of lettuce either, that guy.
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is this okay? first of all, who wants to compare themselves to swimsuit models. what what a ridiculous comparison. >> for the first lady to say people ought to eat healthy, that's about the least controversial thing you could possibly say. i think for boat sides, lay off the first ladies, lay off the sfous, lay off the kids. . >> here's michelle obama's remarks last week. no wonder michelle obama is telling everybody you better breast feed your baby. yeah, you better because the price of mill k is so high. what is this all about? why are you going after her? >> if you look at her numbers it's no the smart politically to go after her. she's a very popular figure. she's talking about kids getting more exercise, eating better and weighing less which is one of the best things we can do to
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lower health care costs over the long term. i don't know why anyone would go after her. >> why would palin trash the first lady for going after breast feeding. here's what the governor of alaska said back in 2007. quote, breast feeding awareness month in alaska saying she would encourage all residents to recognize and support the importance contributions breast feeding makes in improving the quality of life for all alaskans. there she is absolutely speaking with a forked tongue. endorsing the it for health reasons. and then trashing the first lady. does she remember what she said four years ago? >> as you know, i'm not aulgs quick to defend sarah palin on this show, but i think she was trying to make a joke. >> how did that whole jokey thing go for her? >> 450 what is going on? it used to be it was out of boun bounds, attacking spouses. michelle obama has stayed oit of the politics pretty much. >> it should be out of bounds. and frankly, i think some of the
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things that go on in politics routinely out to also be out of bounds. i thought the question asked about newt gingrich about the way he left his wife is probably something in political discourse doesn't need to be present. to attack people outside of public lives is something that frankly is relatively new in politics. >> i think it's race, too. i think there's dispain from people like limbaugh for this first family as a family. there's a disdain towards them. he wouldn't talk about another first family who were white about this. he has a disdain that's come on. beck has it, too. it's ethnic disdain. and they feel happy doing this, because they know their followers out there like it. they're in the business of keeping a radio listenership. they know it doesn't offend their type ditto heads, or they wouldn't be saying it. >> i don't think it has anything to do with ethnicity. there was a disdain on the left for george bush and the bush family.
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>> who went after laura bush? who went after barbara bush? a. >> nobody. >> the disdain of the family fuelled the rise -- >> if you want to give me an attack by anybody on laura bush ever. >> i have never seen it. >> any attack on barbara bush ever? >> the level of vitriole aimed at bush and the bush family>> it wasn't for the bush family, it was for the president for taking us into war. >> usually you exercise discretion on this program. you can defend anything. these full mooners now. attacking the guy's wife -- >> i'm not defending attacking his wife. i'm saying it's on both sides. >> this is about race. when we return, let me finish with who has the real power on the right. it's scary. it's people like that, not people who you think. the glenn beck types.
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let me finish tonight with a stunning development on the american right. if you haven't noticed the real power vortex is on the right these days are not elected public officials or even candidates. people who have to win ma jorryes are no longer leaders. the people who are the leaders are the people behind the mike, in the studio booths. here's michele bachmann, quote, we need to simply tell the feel
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the facts, like glenn beck with the chalkboard. that man can explain anything. i think if we give blen beck the numbers, he can solve this. she's talking about the budget. here's an elected member of congress with a significant staff of legislative and folcy assistance, with access to the congressional budget office and the staffs of all the major fiscal committees, appropriations, budget, ways and means, and she's saying that her best bet for numbers and analysis, the best bet to solve the number deficits and growing debt challenge lies with glenn beck. glenn beck who said recently the administrations of the two president bushes acted to protect the future capital of the coming caliphate of the middle east through europe. the man who says the bush family, father and son, as agents of the caliphate as our best bet to solve our fiscal challenge. beck who regularly says shoot me in the head and tells his listeners to shoot other people in the head. and warned us just today that the u.s. dollar will become, as he put it, quote,